okay, so i tryed the patch version with the working phone and , i am very sorry to say this, but the whole PATS/GPS design with the permanent phone at the side and the switching in between is still really bad and annoying You already explained in the past why you want the system cause things would get to cluttered in the middle in future versions. So i admit i am no programmer but i had the idea: why not use the icons you are already using in the phone for the main picture so that you can still put away your phone AND dont need to switch between two apps ? i took a bit of time with a Picture editor to show you what i mean.
As seen here, lots of space in the middle to put whatever stuff there and no need for a permanent phone on the side. Upper left icons for moving around and lower right icons showing all people that are avaible at the time to interact with and to be directly clickable without using phone/app). Now its just an idea, and i fully understand if you dont want it (or it is not at all possible or doesnt work with your game idea, I just dont wanted to be one of these people who always complain but never bring up an idea of there own, thats all xD
Open GPS, move to next area till you get where you're going
Close GPS
Open PATS to see if anyone is there.
Close PATS
Open GPS -> back to step 1 as I wander randomly around checking each place every day at different times to see if someone is there or if there's something to do.
That's a LOT of clicks and menus. It's repetitive and annoying and unnecessary.
You could for instance:
put a marker on GPS locations with active people/events
alternatively show in PATS where people are - it's a messaging app so why do you have to be in the same location to find someone?
Mermidon's idea of adding portraits is even better - if you're in the same area you should just be able to see who else is there.
The GPS windows are pretty empty - why not put ALL locations in one GPS window - that should save a lot of clicking and opening and closing screens.
just to clarify, the intention of the portraits in the lower right was not only to see who is there but also that portraits itself were clickable so that one can start interacting with the person directly without the need of pulling up the phone or opening an app. i didnt really describes it right the first time. xD (time to fix that)
the story has not progressed an inch since i got the PATS/GPS is there no story after that point? ive just spent ages going in cicles skipping throught the same dialogue with the same group of npcs
I'm stuck on the 'Army in the making mission'' because my character can't stay awake until midnight to start it, but just passes out and always wakes up in the morning. Does someone know how to get to midnight without passing out?
EDIT: Issue has been fixed, but leaving workaround here just in case.
For everyone experiencing the same issue with the white screen when the PATS/GPS apps are first introduced, try hitting on Back to return to the conversation with Zorro and open the phone menu (right click on PC/click Phone on Android). You'll see that both apps are already there, so open the GPS app and close the phone menu while it's still open (right click on PC/X under the phone screen on Android).
This should let you use it once the conversation ends and allow you to get out of the house. Once outside, you can freely use any app that you want and continue to explore the current content, but take into account that if you go back to the house manually, use PATS inside, or go to sleep/bathroom, the white screen issue will continue (events such as the getting tired out or washing the bathroom for Boss will not trigger this issue even if they take you inside the house).
Also, after you meet 5 different people, the next part of the story triggers and at the end of it the error will happen again with no way of fixing it since you can't open the phone during conversations anymore, so try having a couple of saves on hand until it gets fixed.
Man, I hate to be negative, but I really don't think the whole phone restricted movement is the route your team should go with. The way it's presented to the player is so frustrating. You go from having a perfectly good way of transporting yourself around the map, to being restricted to moving through laborious and often times unnecessary movements. I don't really know what you guys are going for here. Closing the gps app, and opening the "pats" app is so unneeded, (the cursor is moved across the screen two whole times, terrible user interface design) and when we open it and see nothing there, wasting our time, it's a frustrating player experience. If you compare it to black cat's other game, game over, you can see that the player's mouse has to make minimal movement when perusing the dialogue options, all located middle-center. This only changes when we need to use the map, and even the map is way better implemented as it isn't as linear as the map in this game.
Additionally, and usually I don't like to comment on the coder's ability, because I know first hand that coding is a pain in the ass, the jank when it comes to actually getting it to work is a pain. I really feel like your team isn't taking the time to weight the benefits of changing so much .
I'll say, I am not trying to hate on your project. I just don't think you guys are making the best decision with over complicating the traversal system.
yay, i had the same view three months ago as i asked what was up with this design choice, i will just copy/paste there answer here
TeamZorro Quote:
"Once all the areas and starting npcs are in, there are some places where you can go to 4 places from one area, and that will eventually increase.
Combine that with being able to meet different npcs around the same time. The screen will become cluttered with options. We're moving away from rnging meeting the guy you want through the events and just talking to them when they are at x location at x time, as people were annoyed with rng trying to meet the guy they want to with the old.
Also it adds a bit more of overtone that the fact the player and their phone are linked."
---quote End
i too, still think this design choice is kind of questionable and working with it is tedious. Also the "the fact the player and their phone are linked"-part leaves are bad taste in my mouth, i mean do they really need to be?
Guess we#ll just have to have faith that it will turn out well in the future.
As Mermidion posted, this is a new system we're working on.
I'm sorry that it doesn't feel more like GameOver, but keep in mind these are completely different games with different art styles, UIs and mechanics. Azulookami and the rest of Team Zorro are confident this will work out once more content is in. I'd also like to address how much input I have in the design process: firstly, I'm now the third developer to pick up and work on SbA. Most of the systems and backends were already written, defined, or planned before I assumed lead. Secondly, as with all 'in-development' projects there are growing pains. Unfortunately this is one of those times, but we're confident it'll be worth it in the end.
If you have input on how we can make this system better, please feel free to let us know! I can't guarantee every suggestion will make it in, but Team Zorro would be happy to know what can be done better.
i think the biggest problem, with the phone is just it's extremely inconvenient, when going to a new place you have to click in the least 3 times to get out, and even then you might just waste your time going to a location with nothing on it.
i think what should be added is
1 some way to pass time, that i imagine will already be added considering we had it before, but this time we'll be able to do it with the phone.
2 something either like in game notes or a character screen that unlocks info when you hang out with a character and keeps that there so you know at what time and where this character is(or just the map itself has little icons of the characters when they can be talked to in a certain area, for you not to waste your time going to a place that's empty).
3 i do not know if this is possible with the current engine, but what if instead of the app taking the whole screen we can have multiple apps, with a determined size so it isn't that annoying to be constantly pressing buttons.(or honestly just making movement options be on the screen like the options of dialogue and just opening pats to then talk with people).
but i don't know if it's feasible so oh well.
just the phone right now is very annoying and buggy as fuck so i guess just fixing that is the main issue right now.
Heyo! I don’t know where to send this issue but after PATS is installed, on a fresh run of the new update, and nav becomes phone dependent, I get his issue.
I’m running it on Android, if there’s any details I can provide to better help debug this lmk or if I’ve made a mistake along the way any tips are appreciated.
What worked for me (playing on PC) is hit Back and while Zorro is still talking with you, right click to open the phone interface. You'll notice that the GPS and PATS apps are there already, open either one of them and without closing it, right click again to leave the phone menu and finish the conversation.
Though it's not a perfect solution, since it goes back to this one whenever you return back home or talk with Zorro again.
Found the issue. If you don't have either the GPS or PATS app open, game is set to open the GPS app by default, but there's a typo in it (it's trying to open the "GP" app). So guess it's only a matter of waiting now...
Happening to me too, using a laptop. Since PATS makes the phone unusable, it makes the game completely unplayable since we now need to use the phone for everything. Which makes seeing the new content impossible...
im trying to dowload the game but im kinda dont know what am i doing wrong or whats go wrong,usually dowload it on cell phone but im trying to do it on my computer,i tried to open that on that show in the photo and the one below and dind worked,could anyone help me?
This version of the game definitely has potential, and I love a lot of the new art/scenes. However, for the time being, I would sincerely suggest anyone interested in this game seek out the HTML version under the same name still on Newgrounds. It's a significantly more complete version of this game, despite it being shelved a couple years ago.
(WHOLE BUNCH OF COMPARISONS/CRITIQUE BELOW)
When it comes to content, the Ren'py version is a combination of new writing, old writing from the HTML version, and updated writing from the HTML version to make it better fit the new engine. A lot of this new/updated writing is really enjoyable, and the new backgrounds/art are great! However, the HTML version has far more scenes, NPCs, and art. Playing the HTML version feels like a much more complete experience at the moment, but I'm hoping that as the Ren'py game updates it'll get more fleshed out.
Regarding story: as it is now, the new Ren'py game is significantly more linear, which makes sense given the focus on making the story easier to access. Unfortunately, this has some pretty bad side effects, such as limiting where you're allowed to go and what you can do by story progression. While some elements of that existed in the HTML version, it's still a much more open world to explore. Additionally, while the HTML version's story was harder to follow, it still felt far easier to progress than it does in the Ren'py version. At the moment, the Ren'py version's story progression is based almost entirely on trial and error, and it's sometimes hard to tell if/when you're actually using your time wisely. Gathering clues for the two password puzzles are prime examples of this; it's hard to tell if you have all the clues for the password unless you already know the password in advance. This... kind of defeats the purpose of the puzzle. The HTML version's story is a little harder to follow, but in my opinion, is much easier to actually progress through.
Another story-based thing in the Ren'py version of the game are the fights, of which I've seen a couple comments expressing some disappointment over. In the Ren'py version, fights are currently scripted wins/losses until their chapter is over, upon which they just... stop existing. In the HTML version, though, there were FAR more fights, they were actually repeatable at any point, and had a ton of outcomes based on various methods of winning/losing, unlocked fetishes, etc.. Plus, fights gave you money/items, which is always nice!
Additionally, the game mechanics in the HTML version are way more fleshed out than the Ren'py one, with a bunch of different transformation systems (various species, body part sizes, masculinity/femininity, muscle, etc.) that you could interact with to customize your character. At the moment, the Ren'py version has a scripted transformation that makes you into a mouse, and that's it, I think. There were also far more fetishes, additional fighting types, and optional content/paths to unlock that don't seem to exist in the current Ren'py game.
Lastly, the phone system in the Ren'py version is currently incredibly cumbersome to deal with. For those who don't know, you unlock the phone system after completing chapter 2, and it replaces all of the text prompts you usually use with a phone interface. Instead of clicking the "Talk to NPC" or "Go to location" text prompts on the screen, you click the "app" related to what you want, then click on the text prompt from there. From what I've read, it's planned to eventually make NPC encounters easier to find, so that you don't have to do a bunch of random encounters to find them. This is a great idea! However, at the moment, it just makes going places and interacting with NPCs much harder. Instead of just clicking the prompt to go to a place and being done, it now takes several clicks in different locations to accomplish the same task. Leaving the house, for instance, requires you to click off the NPC app, onto the location app, then click the text prompt, all with little animations. Additionally, the phone system currently removes all random encounters. This means that you can no longer farm items, see random events, or (most pressingly, in my opinion) quickly pass the time. Which ends up making it MUCH harder to get to the right time of day to talk to NPCs, and... kind of undermines the point of having the phone. Why have a system designed for easier NPC encounters make it harder to meet them at the right time? Needless to say, the phone system does not exist in the HTML version. In the HTML version, quite a few NPC encounters are frustrating to access due to being random events, but the majority of important NPC encounters aren't random at all-- you just go to the area at the right of time of day, and a prompt shows up.
I really, truly think the Ren'py version has a lot of potential, and I know making this into a good RPG game in the engine can be done. However, at the moment, I cannot recommend this version of the game over the HTML one.
Honestly, I don't know what do after we get the phone apps, maybe due to my lack of attention or either that's where the wip ends, but trying to wait for a while is so tiresome because of that phone mechanic, it was more easy before.
I was mostly interested in the battles before downloading but they were so few and most of the time we lose on purpose, which was kinda unmotivating.
Also the choices kinda felt irrelevant most of the time for me, like no matter we choose from one of the three options it'll always lead to the same result.
The game has potential, for sure, but most of those things are a letdown.
What you are seeing is that after you have a conversation at 6:10am the time then moves to 3:00pm. There are no options because there is nobody to talk to at that time. The game currently is getting back on its' feet so right now there are a limited number of NPC's you can talk to. Later on down the line once there are more characters you wont encounter this issue ^-^
Depends on what you mean by old version. If you are referring to the SbA VN that was before it got reworked which included areas like the CV arena I believe you can find that on Newgrounds
Not done yet till all the areas are in, and it should be done around when you can freely fight past enemies, which will come after all areas that used to be in the game back in!
So theres an interaction downtown on the PATS system that says "bored." And when i hit it, it turns into a coding error, also, is there an option to hide the text bar on the mobile app?
That's how it works. Zorro should have told you you're walking weird for not having your face in your phone all the time. Later once all the areas of old are in, we're planning on having multiple npcs to be able to talk to instead wandering around and hoping you run into events randomly. This time you'll just be able to go to a place at a certain time and encounter them. We're still implementing all the areas and features. We're hoping we should be done with mostly all of it by march or april.
I think the whole thing is really clunky, It's really annoying moving your mouse across the screen just to move around. The pats app jumps onto the screen immediately, so If you're trying to get to the bedroom from the downtown area, it takes like 8 total motions when it could simply be three.
I know I was frustrated with the way the story went last time I played this, perhaps you have changed it, perhaps not, but I think I'm willing to try it again soon at least. It is never a good feeling to be made to feel like you matter, when the fact is you don't, and the one's who can tell you keep it a secret, instead of being a little more straight. To be given freedom, yet expected to fall in line without anyone even asking. It presents the feeling like the story had o direction, if you are not told what you can do to help, then what is the point of expecting one to do it, if you are given freedom like all is right in the world? I just hope you changed up either the initial prologue part or part of the way the first major event happens/is worded to account for this. I don't expect hand holding, but how can one expect another to do something specific for them, if they don't even know they are expected to do something? If we were just trash, we should be treated like it right away, and if we have potential, we should be given hints or clues as to a means to gain some approval. A little direction would be nice, but I never expected everything about this game to be warm and fuzzy though. Don't think too much about this, for this is just me rehashing what I said awhile ago, so my concerns may no longer be as valid, if even valid.
This is one of my favorite games, and it's overflowing with potential, but there are some serious problems with the story itself and with the cues to the player regarding what his next task / options are; not to mention all the spelling and grammar mistakes. What I think you need is a good editor.
I've played GameOver as well, again a favorite with great potential, and it has the exact same problems - with the possible exception of spelling mistakes. I posted the same feedback on the GO page.
Once we've finished adding in all the old areas, we'll have a skip button for you to just jump straight to the open world bits like it used to be if you don't want to go through the tutorial.
The prologue will not change as the fact you are a stranger who just entered into their world through a portal left open by Zorro and them having no clue who you are or what you'll do or tell people. Their lack of trust of you lends way to a tutorial that shows you how things work while also letting you make mistakes during it to show if you mess things up, the story will continue on.
It also states they have no real exception of you and are just using you whether you come out on top or fail. The first task is just merely telling you to explore and do other things before doing the main quest without telling you. Then the second is have you done that and puts it in a more obvious way, more than just getting the puzzle right. The only point of those was just to explain go do others.
However, the fact others are willing to help knowing your plight while not putting themselves in danger for someone who they barely know for no good reason considering the line of work they do. The fact they keep pointing out you're not the first person to find themselves in this position is supposed to tell it's sort of a common thing that happens, and they've become less sympathetic, aside from Duilio, to your issue other than doing the bits to help you while they continue to do things they want to.
For Gen's case, while he knows your situation, your not the first. He had to change his plans ever since you got here and isn't the most happiest of guys having to do so. Having to constantly having to change his plans to accommodate the next new guy who wandered into Zorro's portal isn't something he wants to do, so dusts anything he can off to others, while just giving you the need to know information.
I could have just outright said all the context hints going on, and with the amount of people not catching onto them probably would have been the more obvious answer. Idk, maybe I'll put it somewhere else of someone telling you what you should have picked up and see how people react.
The previous plot was you wander around and stuff happens as it was made based off of Aqua Team Huger Force's original plot, but that upset a lot more people. So for people who already know about the group being not the most legal of people, and doing things that would otherwise land them in jail, them treating you as they do is a more realistic option especially when later on when you learn of this and more people start to tell you this like they used to.
Ultimately having you stuck in their group somehow because you worked with them and knowledge you know preventing any ignorance is bliss.
I could have conveyed this better with putting characters who naturally would just tell you more outright, instead of the ones who tell you by action, at the start. But I never really liked how people just tell you everything in games while knowing nothing of you.
Yes. I never expected any hand holding. My whole issue is Dullio attempting to dispose of you because you weren't doing anything he wanted, but no one even tells you about any of this, so it ruins the story with broken logic. If he has given you fee will at first, how the hell can you be expected to do something at random for him? Roughly it would be better to be vaguely forewarned that he will test you, giving you the sense that the free will roaming is a grace period, then once you beat the first boss, explains that, rather than trying to get rid of you (Jealousy for no reason, when he is the one calling the shots), that this was the initiation test, and that failure would have meant being disposed of as a mercy because of the characters that roam around could cause fates worse. This could give the feeling that he was giving you the chance to earn a place by a trail by fire and that failure would result in something that benefit everyone because you would no longer be a concern or random variable. These subtle shifts in tone would make it feel more like, now the game and its story truly begins, and "Welcome to he team", while still maintaining the same air of his personality. He seems more like he is principled and calculating, not rash and judgmental, and that is exactly how he came off with his dialogue sounding of pure jealousy and contempt for no good god damn reason!!! Because of the way that was done, it makes it pointless to even EXIST, because now you can no longer trust ANYONE, but since this is a GAME, it means QUIT. There is a big difference between being treated like your low on totem pole, and being treated like utter trash. And oh god does it make you feel like jumping off a cliff!!!
I'm sure it's only stated that your results are going to be reported to Duilio, while Zorro's the one trying to push and hurry you towards being in a team. It's more hinted at that Zorro's trying to get you in his good graces, not Duilio having you do these things to get in his.
Brass and someone else might mention working for Duilio is good, but the hints especially when you start to talk to him about it, is supposed to be pointing towards Zorro setting all of this up and Duilio just preventing Zorro from doing too much.
Duilio tells you at the start he's only allowing Zorro to keep you as a toy till he has time to dispose of you.
The introduction / tutorial portion of the game seemed excessively long to me - many scenes convey no substantive information (such as being forced to sign a document you can't read) then moving into a very long linear series of episodes with few meaningful choices and a lot of days that have no content at all besides going outside, 'investigating' a a few of times until the option to sleep becomes available, then repeating.
The actual training scenes are good - very fun - I'd suggest keeping that and the other story rich bits and cutting out anything that doesn't actually advance the introduction. Maybe clarifying the opening scene with Duilio so it conveys this sense of 'oh not another one' a bit more clearly.
I found the reactions of the story characters to the player's arrival varied, interesting and credible - and it is fun to meat them.
My frustration as a player was in the other direction - the PC seems incredibly passive for someone that was sucked into an alternate dimension and is told absolutely nothing about why this happened, if or when he's going to be sent back, and what he's expected to do in the meantime. It just doesn't feel like a plausible reaction to me - why isn't he angry, or sullen, or uncooperative, or looking for someone that will give him a bit more information? There are a huge range of realistic and believable possible reactions by the PC.
It's true you don't want to just dump a bunch of exposition onto the player; however, you do need to provide enough of an introductory framework to give a sense of realism to the PC and provide initial guidance to the player.
I dislike giving unsolicited advice - it's too easy for it to be perceived as aggressive or condescending or similar. If you find what I'm saying useful and I can be of any help to you at all just say the word, I'd be happy to help out. Beyond that, I'm going to keep my nose to myself and stop sticking it into your game uninvited.
Hello there Black Cat Studios and team, I just wanted to say a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a joyous New Year to everyone that is making this game grand! I sincerely hope that every one of you has an amazing 2023, a mystical rest of 2022, and good health to you all for the foreseeable future! I hope I can speak for your entire fanbase when I say that we are at the edge of our seats watching the progress of this masterpiece of a game, and we are incredibly grateful to have you all with us!
Hey! Just started playing. Dunno if you already know this but at the beginning when the lion walks in, it's bugged. The model is huge, making onli his feet visible on screen.
sooo, i dont really get the point of the phone GPS/Dating app gimmick. it just seems like an unnecessary extra step to get things done. why click on the phone extra when you could do things dierectly before? also always having the phone on the site now for stuff is kind of...eh.
i dont try to critic, maybe its necessary for stuff that comes later into play, that could be possible. i am just curious.
Once all the areas and starting npcs are in, there are some places where you can go to 4 places from one area, and that will eventually increase.
Combine that with being able to meet different npcs around the same time. The screen will become cluttered with options. We're moving away from rnging meeting the guy you want through the events and just talking to them when they are at x location at x time, as people were annoyed with rng trying to meet the guy they want to with the old.
Also it adds a bit more of overtone that the fact the player and their phone are linked.
so I dont know if this is happening for anyone else, but as soon as Zorro adds the apps to my phone in game I cant exit from the phone because the dialogue box is covering the button to close the phone and I cant leave the house or do anything because theres no options to. If I try hitting the x it asks me if Id like ro go to sleep and then the game closes out.
Yeah, it's part of the tutorial. There will be a 3rd time but the fight will be drastically different since by then you'll know 3 fighting styles and you'll have multiple ways to lose and different win scenes.
The first time I tried this game, it was an open world. The second time I tried this game, it changed into an RPG on rails. I'm reticent to try it again since it seems to be a different game each time I play it.
Sorry about that. It's slowly going back to open world like it used to be. We just had to move from html because we could no longer support it, so we thought as the new coder started to put all the new systems and old events in, we'd give more of a story since people complained a lot of having no clue what to do.
Personally I thought just having freeroam and discovering things on your own was nice, but kept getting complaints on what to do. We also decided to try to do away with the rng of trying to meet the guy you wanted as well.
Now once the systems are in proper order and all the areas are back in, which we're currently putting them back in, you'll be free to do as you please. Meet guys or do the story as they get added in.
The main issue why it's taking so long was stated in dev logs as we've been open about it. The coder who started to move everything to renpy has rl issues he needed to take care, then we got another coder who didn't workout very well with us, and now we're on our current coder who's working hard in putting in content and getting the systems in order!
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okay, so i tryed the patch version with the working phone and , i am very sorry to say this, but the whole PATS/GPS design with the permanent phone at the side and the switching in between is still really bad and annoying
You already explained in the past why you want the system cause things would get to cluttered in the middle in future versions.
So i admit i am no programmer but i had the idea: why not use the icons you are already using in the phone for the main picture so that you can still put away your phone AND dont need to switch between two apps ?
i took a bit of time with a Picture editor to show you what i mean.
As seen here, lots of space in the middle to put whatever stuff there and no need for a permanent phone on the side.
Upper left icons for moving around and lower right icons showing all people that are avaible at the time to interact with and to be directly clickable without using phone/app).
Now its just an idea, and i fully understand if you dont want it (or it is not at all possible or doesnt work with your game idea,
I just dont wanted to be one of these people who always complain but never bring up an idea of there own, thats all xD
The PATS/GPS system is terrible.
That's a LOT of clicks and menus. It's repetitive and annoying and unnecessary.
You could for instance:
The GPS windows are pretty empty - why not put ALL locations in one GPS window - that should save a lot of clicking and opening and closing screens.
just to clarify, the intention of the portraits in the lower right was not only to see who is there but also that portraits itself were clickable so that one can start interacting with the person directly without the need of pulling up the phone or opening an app. i didnt really describes it right the first time. xD (time to fix that)
the story has not progressed an inch since i got the PATS/GPS is there no story after that point? ive just spent ages going in cicles skipping throught the same dialogue with the same group of npcs
I'm stuck on the 'Army in the making mission'' because my character can't stay awake until midnight to start it, but just passes out and always wakes up in the morning. Does someone know how to get to midnight without passing out?
There's no way to continue it at the moment.
This game have Is the CG image similar to the game cover?
EDIT: Issue has been fixed, but leaving workaround here just in case.
For everyone experiencing the same issue with the white screen when the PATS/GPS apps are first introduced, try hitting on Back to return to the conversation with Zorro and open the phone menu (right click on PC/click Phone on Android). You'll see that both apps are already there, so open the GPS app and close the phone menu while it's still open (right click on PC/X under the phone screen on Android).
This should let you use it once the conversation ends and allow you to get out of the house. Once outside, you can freely use any app that you want and continue to explore the current content, but take into account that if you go back to the house manually, use PATS inside, or go to sleep/bathroom, the white screen issue will continue (events such as the getting tired out or washing the bathroom for Boss will not trigger this issue even if they take you inside the house).
Also, after you meet 5 different people, the next part of the story triggers and at the end of it the error will happen again with no way of fixing it since you can't open the phone during conversations anymore, so try having a couple of saves on hand until it gets fixed.
Thanks for helping everyone!
This has been fixed now and you shouldn't have to work around it anymore.
i am stuck at den of rats quest
Man, I hate to be negative, but I really don't think the whole phone restricted movement is the route your team should go with. The way it's presented to the player is so frustrating. You go from having a perfectly good way of transporting yourself around the map, to being restricted to moving through laborious and often times unnecessary movements. I don't really know what you guys are going for here. Closing the gps app, and opening the "pats" app is so unneeded, (the cursor is moved across the screen two whole times, terrible user interface design) and when we open it and see nothing there, wasting our time, it's a frustrating player experience. If you compare it to black cat's other game, game over, you can see that the player's mouse has to make minimal movement when perusing the dialogue options, all located middle-center. This only changes when we need to use the map, and even the map is way better implemented as it isn't as linear as the map in this game.
Additionally, and usually I don't like to comment on the coder's ability, because I know first hand that coding is a pain in the ass, the jank when it comes to actually getting it to work is a pain. I really feel like your team isn't taking the time to weight the benefits of changing so much .
I'll say, I am not trying to hate on your project. I just don't think you guys are making the best decision with over complicating the traversal system.
yay, i had the same view three months ago as i asked what was up with this design choice, i will just copy/paste there answer here
TeamZorro Quote:
"Once all the areas and starting npcs are in, there are some places where you can go to 4 places from one area, and that will eventually increase. Combine that with being able to meet different npcs around the same time. The screen will become cluttered with options. We're moving away from rnging meeting the guy you want through the events and just talking to them when they are at x location at x time, as people were annoyed with rng trying to meet the guy they want to with the old.
Also it adds a bit more of overtone that the fact the player and their phone are linked."
---quote End
i too, still think this design choice is kind of questionable and working with it is tedious. Also the "the fact the player and their phone are linked"-part leaves are bad taste in my mouth, i mean do they really need to be?
Guess we#ll just have to have faith that it will turn out well in the future.
As Mermidion posted, this is a new system we're working on.
I'm sorry that it doesn't feel more like GameOver, but keep in mind these are completely different games with different art styles, UIs and mechanics. Azulookami and the rest of Team Zorro are confident this will work out once more content is in. I'd also like to address how much input I have in the design process: firstly, I'm now the third developer to pick up and work on SbA. Most of the systems and backends were already written, defined, or planned before I assumed lead. Secondly, as with all 'in-development' projects there are growing pains. Unfortunately this is one of those times, but we're confident it'll be worth it in the end.
If you have input on how we can make this system better, please feel free to let us know! I can't guarantee every suggestion will make it in, but Team Zorro would be happy to know what can be done better.
i think the biggest problem, with the phone is just it's extremely inconvenient, when going to a new place you have to click in the least 3 times to get out, and even then you might just waste your time going to a location with nothing on it.
i think what should be added is
1 some way to pass time, that i imagine will already be added considering we had it before, but this time we'll be able to do it with the phone.
2 something either like in game notes or a character screen that unlocks info when you hang out with a character and keeps that there so you know at what time and where this character is(or just the map itself has little icons of the characters when they can be talked to in a certain area, for you not to waste your time going to a place that's empty).
3 i do not know if this is possible with the current engine, but what if instead of the app taking the whole screen we can have multiple apps, with a determined size so it isn't that annoying to be constantly pressing buttons.(or honestly just making movement options be on the screen like the options of dialogue and just opening pats to then talk with people).
but i don't know if it's feasible so oh well.
just the phone right now is very annoying and buggy as fuck so i guess just fixing that is the main issue right now.
ups i have seen this to late or i would have put my idea here instead of a few answers above. oh well xD
Heyo! I don’t know where to send this issue but after PATS is installed, on a fresh run of the new update, and nav becomes phone dependent, I get his issue.
I’m running it on Android, if there’s any details I can provide to better help debug this lmk or if I’ve made a mistake along the way any tips are appreciated.
I got this problem too
My bad. There are a lot of you so I'm going to copypasta.
This issue has been fixed. Check for an update! 🥰
what fixed it for me is opening up mail and then hitting the X of the mail messages.
how do you open it?
This issue has been fixed. Check for an update! 🥰
This issue has been fixed. Check for an update! 🥰
What worked for me (playing on PC) is hit Back and while Zorro is still talking with you, right click to open the phone interface. You'll notice that the GPS and PATS apps are there already, open either one of them and without closing it, right click again to leave the phone menu and finish the conversation.
Though it's not a perfect solution, since it goes back to this one whenever you return back home or talk with Zorro again.
Found the issue. If you don't have either the GPS or PATS app open, game is set to open the GPS app by default, but there's a typo in it (it's trying to open the "GP" app). So guess it's only a matter of waiting now...
Yep! Totally missed this during testing. All fixed now though.
This worked for me too! Thanks!!
Edit...and it breaks every time I head for the house. Yeah i'm assuming it keeps trying to call back ot the Pats menu and that bugs it.
This issue has been fixed. Check for an update! 🥰
Happening to me too, using a laptop. Since PATS makes the phone unusable, it makes the game completely unplayable since we now need to use the phone for everything. Which makes seeing the new content impossible...
I'm sorry about that. I made a typo in the navigation system. This issue has been fixed. Check for an update! 🥰
Heyo! Sorry for that. I made a typo that didn't get caught.
In the future you can log bugs directly over on my website (https://blackcatstudiosdev.com). That way I'll see them faster.
What's the pass Word of the computer.....???? 👉👈
goblinsarerealman
fucking hate that i rember that
Any update for the Newgrounds verison?
Is it possible to have sex with Boss or Shlar?
Does this game have a guide or a wiki?
This version of the game definitely has potential, and I love a lot of the new art/scenes. However, for the time being, I would sincerely suggest anyone interested in this game seek out the HTML version under the same name still on Newgrounds. It's a significantly more complete version of this game, despite it being shelved a couple years ago.
(WHOLE BUNCH OF COMPARISONS/CRITIQUE BELOW)
When it comes to content, the Ren'py version is a combination of new writing, old writing from the HTML version, and updated writing from the HTML version to make it better fit the new engine. A lot of this new/updated writing is really enjoyable, and the new backgrounds/art are great! However, the HTML version has far more scenes, NPCs, and art. Playing the HTML version feels like a much more complete experience at the moment, but I'm hoping that as the Ren'py game updates it'll get more fleshed out.
Regarding story: as it is now, the new Ren'py game is significantly more linear, which makes sense given the focus on making the story easier to access. Unfortunately, this has some pretty bad side effects, such as limiting where you're allowed to go and what you can do by story progression. While some elements of that existed in the HTML version, it's still a much more open world to explore. Additionally, while the HTML version's story was harder to follow, it still felt far easier to progress than it does in the Ren'py version. At the moment, the Ren'py version's story progression is based almost entirely on trial and error, and it's sometimes hard to tell if/when you're actually using your time wisely. Gathering clues for the two password puzzles are prime examples of this; it's hard to tell if you have all the clues for the password unless you already know the password in advance. This... kind of defeats the purpose of the puzzle. The HTML version's story is a little harder to follow, but in my opinion, is much easier to actually progress through.
Another story-based thing in the Ren'py version of the game are the fights, of which I've seen a couple comments expressing some disappointment over. In the Ren'py version, fights are currently scripted wins/losses until their chapter is over, upon which they just... stop existing. In the HTML version, though, there were FAR more fights, they were actually repeatable at any point, and had a ton of outcomes based on various methods of winning/losing, unlocked fetishes, etc.. Plus, fights gave you money/items, which is always nice!
Additionally, the game mechanics in the HTML version are way more fleshed out than the Ren'py one, with a bunch of different transformation systems (various species, body part sizes, masculinity/femininity, muscle, etc.) that you could interact with to customize your character. At the moment, the Ren'py version has a scripted transformation that makes you into a mouse, and that's it, I think. There were also far more fetishes, additional fighting types, and optional content/paths to unlock that don't seem to exist in the current Ren'py game.
Lastly, the phone system in the Ren'py version is currently incredibly cumbersome to deal with. For those who don't know, you unlock the phone system after completing chapter 2, and it replaces all of the text prompts you usually use with a phone interface. Instead of clicking the "Talk to NPC" or "Go to location" text prompts on the screen, you click the "app" related to what you want, then click on the text prompt from there. From what I've read, it's planned to eventually make NPC encounters easier to find, so that you don't have to do a bunch of random encounters to find them. This is a great idea! However, at the moment, it just makes going places and interacting with NPCs much harder. Instead of just clicking the prompt to go to a place and being done, it now takes several clicks in different locations to accomplish the same task. Leaving the house, for instance, requires you to click off the NPC app, onto the location app, then click the text prompt, all with little animations. Additionally, the phone system currently removes all random encounters. This means that you can no longer farm items, see random events, or (most pressingly, in my opinion) quickly pass the time. Which ends up making it MUCH harder to get to the right time of day to talk to NPCs, and... kind of undermines the point of having the phone. Why have a system designed for easier NPC encounters make it harder to meet them at the right time? Needless to say, the phone system does not exist in the HTML version. In the HTML version, quite a few NPC encounters are frustrating to access due to being random events, but the majority of important NPC encounters aren't random at all-- you just go to the area at the right of time of day, and a prompt shows up.
I really, truly think the Ren'py version has a lot of potential, and I know making this into a good RPG game in the engine can be done. However, at the moment, I cannot recommend this version of the game over the HTML one.
where is the html version I can't find it
This should be it! You'll need a Newgrounds account that can view adult content to play it.
https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/754727
Its between 2 am to 4am meet up at home with Trald and Gen for a couple of days looking for anything that might tell you the code. I think..
Code is 11000400 if don't wanna look around
i cant remeber the time when to met but the code is for the rat den if you want you can check your phone as it gen tells you what to do
The phone has a system that tells you what to do.
It’s so sad having to wait for this to update on newgrounds cuz I don’t have laptop. :(
There's an android version
what the password for Mac computer and the password for rat hide out door lock
goblinsarerealman
11000400
thank
Honestly, I don't know what do after we get the phone apps, maybe due to my lack of attention or either that's where the wip ends, but trying to wait for a while is so tiresome because of that phone mechanic, it was more easy before.
I was mostly interested in the battles before downloading but they were so few and most of the time we lose on purpose, which was kinda unmotivating.
Also the choices kinda felt irrelevant most of the time for me, like no matter we choose from one of the three options it'll always lead to the same result.
The game has potential, for sure, but most of those things are a letdown.
So I think there is a bag on the Phone version. When you talking with someone in pats after conversation there is no other buttons. That's what I mean
What you are seeing is that after you have a conversation at 6:10am the time then moves to 3:00pm. There are no options because there is nobody to talk to at that time. The game currently is getting back on its' feet so right now there are a limited number of NPC's you can talk to. Later on down the line once there are more characters you wont encounter this issue ^-^
Is there an archive for the old version?
Depends on what you mean by old version. If you are referring to the SbA VN that was before it got reworked which included areas like the CV arena I believe you can find that on Newgrounds
how do you complete army in the making?
Not done yet till all the areas are in, and it should be done around when you can freely fight past enemies, which will come after all areas that used to be in the game back in!
So theres an interaction downtown on the PATS system that says "bored." And when i hit it, it turns into a coding error, also, is there an option to hide the text bar on the mobile app?
Not supposed to happen in the public version. Thanks for the report.
That's how it works. Zorro should have told you you're walking weird for not having your face in your phone all the time. Later once all the areas of old are in, we're planning on having multiple npcs to be able to talk to instead wandering around and hoping you run into events randomly. This time you'll just be able to go to a place at a certain time and encounter them. We're still implementing all the areas and features. We're hoping we should be done with mostly all of it by march or april.
I think the whole thing is really clunky, It's really annoying moving your mouse across the screen just to move around. The pats app jumps onto the screen immediately, so If you're trying to get to the bedroom from the downtown area, it takes like 8 total motions when it could simply be three.
Hmmm... Definitely what's not planned to happen. Thanks for the report.
I know I was frustrated with the way the story went last time I played this, perhaps you have changed it, perhaps not, but I think I'm willing to try it again soon at least. It is never a good feeling to be made to feel like you matter, when the fact is you don't, and the one's who can tell you keep it a secret, instead of being a little more straight. To be given freedom, yet expected to fall in line without anyone even asking. It presents the feeling like the story had o direction, if you are not told what you can do to help, then what is the point of expecting one to do it, if you are given freedom like all is right in the world? I just hope you changed up either the initial prologue part or part of the way the first major event happens/is worded to account for this. I don't expect hand holding, but how can one expect another to do something specific for them, if they don't even know they are expected to do something? If we were just trash, we should be treated like it right away, and if we have potential, we should be given hints or clues as to a means to gain some approval. A little direction would be nice, but I never expected everything about this game to be warm and fuzzy though. Don't think too much about this, for this is just me rehashing what I said awhile ago, so my concerns may no longer be as valid, if even valid.
This is one of my favorite games, and it's overflowing with potential, but there are some serious problems with the story itself and with the cues to the player regarding what his next task / options are; not to mention all the spelling and grammar mistakes. What I think you need is a good editor.
I've played GameOver as well, again a favorite with great potential, and it has the exact same problems - with the possible exception of spelling mistakes. I posted the same feedback on the GO page.
We got people working on the spelling and gammar issues now.
Once we've finished adding in all the old areas, we'll have a skip button for you to just jump straight to the open world bits like it used to be if you don't want to go through the tutorial.
My gripe was the story writing, had nothing to deal with mechnics.
The prologue will not change as the fact you are a stranger who just entered into their world through a portal left open by Zorro and them having no clue who you are or what you'll do or tell people. Their lack of trust of you lends way to a tutorial that shows you how things work while also letting you make mistakes during it to show if you mess things up, the story will continue on.
It also states they have no real exception of you and are just using you whether you come out on top or fail. The first task is just merely telling you to explore and do other things before doing the main quest without telling you. Then the second is have you done that and puts it in a more obvious way, more than just getting the puzzle right. The only point of those was just to explain go do others.
However, the fact others are willing to help knowing your plight while not putting themselves in danger for someone who they barely know for no good reason considering the line of work they do. The fact they keep pointing out you're not the first person to find themselves in this position is supposed to tell it's sort of a common thing that happens, and they've become less sympathetic, aside from Duilio, to your issue other than doing the bits to help you while they continue to do things they want to.
For Gen's case, while he knows your situation, your not the first. He had to change his plans ever since you got here and isn't the most happiest of guys having to do so. Having to constantly having to change his plans to accommodate the next new guy who wandered into Zorro's portal isn't something he wants to do, so dusts anything he can off to others, while just giving you the need to know information.
I could have just outright said all the context hints going on, and with the amount of people not catching onto them probably would have been the more obvious answer. Idk, maybe I'll put it somewhere else of someone telling you what you should have picked up and see how people react.
The previous plot was you wander around and stuff happens as it was made based off of Aqua Team Huger Force's original plot, but that upset a lot more people. So for people who already know about the group being not the most legal of people, and doing things that would otherwise land them in jail, them treating you as they do is a more realistic option especially when later on when you learn of this and more people start to tell you this like they used to.
Ultimately having you stuck in their group somehow because you worked with them and knowledge you know preventing any ignorance is bliss.
I could have conveyed this better with putting characters who naturally would just tell you more outright, instead of the ones who tell you by action, at the start. But I never really liked how people just tell you everything in games while knowing nothing of you.
The spelling and grammar errors will change.
Yes. I never expected any hand holding. My whole issue is Dullio attempting to dispose of you because you weren't doing anything he wanted, but no one even tells you about any of this, so it ruins the story with broken logic. If he has given you fee will at first, how the hell can you be expected to do something at random for him? Roughly it would be better to be vaguely forewarned that he will test you, giving you the sense that the free will roaming is a grace period, then once you beat the first boss, explains that, rather than trying to get rid of you (Jealousy for no reason, when he is the one calling the shots), that this was the initiation test, and that failure would have meant being disposed of as a mercy because of the characters that roam around could cause fates worse. This could give the feeling that he was giving you the chance to earn a place by a trail by fire and that failure would result in something that benefit everyone because you would no longer be a concern or random variable. These subtle shifts in tone would make it feel more like, now the game and its story truly begins, and "Welcome to he team", while still maintaining the same air of his personality. He seems more like he is principled and calculating, not rash and judgmental, and that is exactly how he came off with his dialogue sounding of pure jealousy and contempt for no good god damn reason!!! Because of the way that was done, it makes it pointless to even EXIST, because now you can no longer trust ANYONE, but since this is a GAME, it means QUIT. There is a big difference between being treated like your low on totem pole, and being treated like utter trash. And oh god does it make you feel like jumping off a cliff!!!
I'm sure it's only stated that your results are going to be reported to Duilio, while Zorro's the one trying to push and hurry you towards being in a team. It's more hinted at that Zorro's trying to get you in his good graces, not Duilio having you do these things to get in his.
Brass and someone else might mention working for Duilio is good, but the hints especially when you start to talk to him about it, is supposed to be pointing towards Zorro setting all of this up and Duilio just preventing Zorro from doing too much.
Duilio tells you at the start he's only allowing Zorro to keep you as a toy till he has time to dispose of you.
The introduction / tutorial portion of the game seemed excessively long to me - many scenes convey no substantive information (such as being forced to sign a document you can't read) then moving into a very long linear series of episodes with few meaningful choices and a lot of days that have no content at all besides going outside, 'investigating' a a few of times until the option to sleep becomes available, then repeating.
The actual training scenes are good - very fun - I'd suggest keeping that and the other story rich bits and cutting out anything that doesn't actually advance the introduction. Maybe clarifying the opening scene with Duilio so it conveys this sense of 'oh not another one' a bit more clearly.
I found the reactions of the story characters to the player's arrival varied, interesting and credible - and it is fun to meat them.
My frustration as a player was in the other direction - the PC seems incredibly passive for someone that was sucked into an alternate dimension and is told absolutely nothing about why this happened, if or when he's going to be sent back, and what he's expected to do in the meantime. It just doesn't feel like a plausible reaction to me - why isn't he angry, or sullen, or uncooperative, or looking for someone that will give him a bit more information? There are a huge range of realistic and believable possible reactions by the PC.
It's true you don't want to just dump a bunch of exposition onto the player; however, you do need to provide enough of an introductory framework to give a sense of realism to the PC and provide initial guidance to the player.
I dislike giving unsolicited advice - it's too easy for it to be perceived as aggressive or condescending or similar. If you find what I'm saying useful and I can be of any help to you at all just say the word, I'd be happy to help out. Beyond that, I'm going to keep my nose to myself and stop sticking it into your game uninvited.
-Rick
anyone know the password for the door to the rat den? I’m kinda stuck thx in advance.
11000400
Hello there Black Cat Studios and team, I just wanted to say a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a joyous New Year to everyone that is making this game grand! I sincerely hope that every one of you has an amazing 2023, a mystical rest of 2022, and good health to you all for the foreseeable future! I hope I can speak for your entire fanbase when I say that we are at the edge of our seats watching the progress of this masterpiece of a game, and we are incredibly grateful to have you all with us!
Sincerely
Bittersweetstateofmind
Hey! Just started playing. Dunno if you already know this but at the beginning when the lion walks in, it's bugged. The model is huge, making onli his feet visible on screen.
sooo, i dont really get the point of the phone GPS/Dating app gimmick.
it just seems like an unnecessary extra step to get things done.
why click on the phone extra when you could do things dierectly before?
also always having the phone on the site now for stuff is kind of...eh.
i dont try to critic, maybe its necessary for stuff that comes later into play, that could be possible. i am just curious.
Once all the areas and starting npcs are in, there are some places where you can go to 4 places from one area, and that will eventually increase.
Combine that with being able to meet different npcs around the same time. The screen will become cluttered with options. We're moving away from rnging meeting the guy you want through the events and just talking to them when they are at x location at x time, as people were annoyed with rng trying to meet the guy they want to with the old.
Also it adds a bit more of overtone that the fact the player and their phone are linked.
I see, now i understand. Thanks for the informative answer.
Mine Did The Same Thing To me Lastnight ; ;
I've got the same issue, are you also using the android version?
No i was on the pc verson
me too - pc version
Will there ever be another update to the new grounds version?
Once the game gets all its areas in and the new systems aren't causing a mess, yup.
11000400 sewer
goblinsarerealman mac
it took way too long to realize
Question, do you need to actually fight Mac the second time or is there way to skip it?
Yeah, it's part of the tutorial. There will be a 3rd time but the fight will be drastically different since by then you'll know 3 fighting styles and you'll have multiple ways to lose and different win scenes.
Oh ok, thanks!
The first time I tried this game, it was an open world. The second time I tried this game, it changed into an RPG on rails. I'm reticent to try it again since it seems to be a different game each time I play it.
Sorry about that. It's slowly going back to open world like it used to be. We just had to move from html because we could no longer support it, so we thought as the new coder started to put all the new systems and old events in, we'd give more of a story since people complained a lot of having no clue what to do.
Personally I thought just having freeroam and discovering things on your own was nice, but kept getting complaints on what to do. We also decided to try to do away with the rng of trying to meet the guy you wanted as well.
Now once the systems are in proper order and all the areas are back in, which we're currently putting them back in, you'll be free to do as you please. Meet guys or do the story as they get added in.
The main issue why it's taking so long was stated in dev logs as we've been open about it. The coder who started to move everything to renpy has rl issues he needed to take care, then we got another coder who didn't workout very well with us, and now we're on our current coder who's working hard in putting in content and getting the systems in order!
is it supposed to look like this?
Would there be a 32.bit version ?
I can ask the coder.